I understand why people dislike leather and animal products. But leather is such a good resource? Like… My mom bought a sturdy leather coat in 1989. I’m in my 20’s and I now wear that coat. That’s a 30 year old coat? 30 years, two generations, one coat. Versus, like… A plastic one, that rips and gets thrown out, or releases bits into the ecosystem every time it’s washed, takes a billion years to decompose, lasts maybe a decade if you’re super duper careful, and uses oil products in it’s construction.
Like, yeah leather is expensive and comes from a living animal, and I’m not saying that you should go out and buy fifty fur and leather products for the he’ll of it, but like… Maybe the compromise is worth it?
One animal product, valued and respected and worn down for generations, versus like… Six plastic products that will never ever go away?
idk, I could be wrong.
this is why im so fucking pissed white colonial fucks and white vegans get so enraged at indigenous people for using hides/leather and animal bones as if that shit breaks or rips like cheap polyester does
Remember, kids:
It’s not “vegan wool”, it’s plastic.
It’s not “vegan leather”, it’s plastic.
It’s not “vegan fur”, it’s fucking plastic. It’s all plastic.
It’s
all fucking plastic, and every time you wash it, or damage it, or try
to dispose of it, that plastic winds up in the water, in the earth, in
the air.
Hell, the damage has already done when the
fucking thing’s been made. As the OP says, it’s all oil and oil
products; it creates pollution just to produce synthetic fabrics and
materials, even before you try to throw them away, which, I mean, good
luck with that.
A lot of vegan ideology is built up around a
very superficial set of ethics that are supposedly about protecting
animals, wildlife and the environment, but they fall apart when you look
even a little bit below the surface. Every time you eschew an
animal-based product in favour of something “synthetic” for the sake of
“saving an animal’s life”, you’re creating pollution and trash that
won’t go away for thousands of years, damaging the Earth and making life
so much worse for countless animals and people.
Think about this stuff more than not at all, please.
@teaboot I totally get the sentiment of inheriting or earning a beloved item such as a jacket. I inherited a beautiful brown leather jacket and a blue denim jacket from my dad. The leather one I don’t wear for personal reason. As I will explain below.
This is by no means an attempt at shaming you, @drtanner or @800-dick-pics. Nor can I from across the world change your opinion. If you do so however, it’s been up to you. Many years ago I argued the exact same way as you. So I get it. This is aiming towards being conversational.
Does your leather jacket come free of harm?
Is harming animals relevant when producing items for us?
Is the fact that we used to need animal products in our lives still a necessity today?
Is it moral to use use animal products when there are more eco-friendly and kinder alternatives today?
Is fashion leather only a biproduct of the meat and dairy industry?
Are chemicals used in leather production facilities harmless to the people employed there? Are they even treated like we should treat humans? Do they even have basic health care?
Is plastic (poly-urethane) the only other viable option to substitute leather? (especially in modern times 2019)
You don’t have to answer the above, they’re more in terms of food for thought. And don’t feel pressed or provoked here, just hear me out.
I’m not suggesting that plastic isn’t bad at all. It’s superbad. We all know it is and of its catastrophic impact on the environment. The microplatics that end up inside the fish you still eat, clogging beaches, choking birds, turtles, dolphins and more. I remember ok twitter someone said “You’ll stop using straws to save fish? But won’t stop eating fish to save fish? Lol” Anyway, it’s pretty indiscriminatory in the way that it ruins all of us.
Here comes the big but;BUT, suggesting plastic is bad (rightfully so) does not mean that leather is a better or even a good source for us to clothe ourselves in. Currently 290 million cows are killed globally just for the sake of handbags, belts, jacket, hats and shoes. The same industry predicts a 40% increase of this global herd in order to support the demands of the growing market. It’s honestly surprising @drtanner@800-dick-pics that you didn’t even mention the possibility of an ecological impact from this industry. And that’s just cows. Then you have sheep, dogs, minks, cats, sharks, lambs and many more industries with millions suffering the same fate. Ever stop to think about the mental health of slaughter house emplyees for another example?
Again, not a biproduct, it’s an industry of it’s own.
@800-dick-pics don’t come here with void arguments regarding indiginous tradition or their lack of access to alternatives. They are never the leading consumer base (or even close) for these products and are in many cases self sustaining. Don’t ever use the indiginous as a shield to deflect your own responsibility. I can’t speak for (I’m guessing american white vegans?) But here in Sweden the vegan movement is pretty big and I have not once ever seen or heard anyone target, slander or accuse the Saami population and their keeping of reindeer. This is targeting us with access to alternatives, which are available in all first world countries.
So what are the alternatives to leather? If I ask you @drtanner, it seems that plastic is the only one… But I know you know there is more. Even if you don’t subscribe to the idea of kinder alternatives to leather. There is constant innovation in this field. Remember, it’s currently 2019 and progress is faster than ever.
I might just add, we know there is no such thing as truly crueltyfree, we do. It’s the conscious thought of buying something that is 100% certain of suffering and death versus something that could be produced with minimal ecological impact in mind, such as Fair Trade. Some can’t afford to buy new. Many reading this however will at some point be able to afford a Fair Trade or similar item. For the rest of us we have second hand thrift stores like I always opt for.
@teaboot why not second hand leather then? It’s not contributed to another dead animal. It’s still just that one that had to die. Inheriting and the subsequent fact that it is second hand IS an understandable sentiment! And frankly, if this was the common praxis, to only inherit and maintain: We wouldn’t have the 290 million animal deaths a year due to new production. It is your choice, I can’t tell you how to choose, but I can tell you why I don’t choose second hand leather.
Leather is an animal product. By definition, vegans do not use any animal products – wearing leather, second hand or not, is not technically vegan. Wearing leather perpetuates the idea that it’s desirable or acceptable to use animals for clothing, no matter where or how you got it.
But let’s get back to leather as it’s the topic. Leather isn’t cheap at all and it comes with a greater price still.
Eco friendly, durable, long lasting and comfortable quality non-leather non-plastic are readily available from:
Pineapple (Pinatex)
Mushroom leather (MyCoworks)
Cork oak bark (when carefully harvested the tree’s life expectancy is upped by some 300 extra years. It’s also water resistant)
Grape / Wine (using the left overs from the wine industry to make quality leather-like fabrics that hold quality standards equal to leather)
Kombucha leather (crazy right? The coolest part about it is that it’s a similar recipe to produce the leather-like fabric)
PVC is right out the door. I think we can all agree that PU/PVC is an embarrasing competitor in this game. And here’s another big plus (for me anyway), they don’t have the smell of dead animal skin.
I will help anyone reading this to find their Go-To non-leather non-plastic Dream jacket.
Lest we forget, animal aggriculture is the #1 leading cause of climate change. This is a verifiable fact by the United Nations own studies. Veganism is is still the better option if you want to align your heart with to action.
If anyone want to keep arguing the point here. Can we try and keep it civil..? Or just PM me and I can clarify anything I might have made you misinterpret or if I just missed somethintg.
I’ve responded to this before but it has been lost in the notes, so I’ll copy and paste my response again below.
The thing is, @teaboot,
for those of us who do oppose leather and other animal fabrics, the
fact that it is viewed as a “good resource” is exactly the problem.
Animals should not be treated as commodities or as resources any more
than humans should, to view them in this way is to take away their
individuality and see them as nothing more than objects, collections of
materials, skin, meat, bones, blood, even children- for us to profit
from and exploit.
Environmentally speaking, leather production is
actually quite a bit worse than faux leather production. It uses more
chemicals, causes more emissions and has a longer term environmental
impact than even plastic does, as you can see from this analysis from
the Higg Material Sustainabity index, which calculates the total
environmental harm of all stages of production, also factoring in
longevity of the materials produced:
Cow leather is the second least sustainable material measured, only
behind alpaca wool. This the result of emissions from raising the cow to
slaughter weight, the impact of the crops used to feed them, the
chemicals (highly toxic) required for tanning and production, the
massive amount of water required as well as the fuel transport costs to
take the animal to slaughter, to processing and then their skin to the
final destination. The idea that leather lasts inherently longer is also
not quite true either, sure you can get items that will last a
generation, but if we’re honest with ourselves, most leather is fast
fashion, we only keep leather longer than plastic because it tends to be
more expensive, not because the material itself is any more hard
wearing.
Besides, what you’ve created here is a clear example one
of a false dichotomy. You’re discussing this as if leather or plastic
are the only two options, but that’s very much not the case. You could
also choose neither. Or you could buy second hand faux leather,
offsetting the environmental cost of prediction entirely. What about
recycled plastics? Cork? Pinatex? Organic cotton? Faux leather made from
pineapples? Bamboo? Or better yet, hemp, which is easily as hard
wearing and long lasting as leather, if not moreso? If you object to
plastic that’s totally fine, I support that 100%, but proving that
plastic is bad is not an argument in favour of leather, which as we have
seen, is actually even worse.
Even if leather were
markedly better for the environment than plastic, the “compromise” of an
animal’s life for an unnecessary vanity item would not be worth it.
We’re not talking about an item essential to most people’s survival
here. As soon as we start seeing the lives of sentient beings as
something we are willing to “compromise” on for fashion, taste,
convenience or tradition, we are in danger of viewing lives as a
reasonable trade for profit. Nothing is worth that.
